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"Literary"

  • Feb. 12th, 2008 at 11:30 AM
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I emailed a literary review journal based at my alma mater to see if they'd make an exception to the "we don't review genre fiction" rule for an alum, and was told that no, they only reviewed "literary" fiction.

Well what is any piece of fiction if not "literary"? Is genre fiction "illiterary"? Do we not use words to convey fictive meaning? I have to say, I'm not a fan of the term "literary" being applied solely to work that is quiet and personal and non-fantastic and, frankly, dull.

Comments

[info]hhw wrote:
Feb. 12th, 2008 04:48 pm (UTC)
Have you emailed the alumni magazine? in my experience as alum & employee in higher ed, they're happy to share any and all book news. It's not usually a real review, but it is a bit of press. The library might also buy books published by alums.
[info]jenwrites wrote:
Feb. 12th, 2008 05:17 pm (UTC)
I haven't emailed them, but they do have a policy of asking for two copies of everything published by alumnae, so they'll be getting their two copies as soon as they're available. They may not actually review it, but they will archive it at the college library. I've also emailed my "Class Notes" person with the news of the collection and the Nebula ballot thingie. So at the very least, I'll be in the next issue of the magazine, all the way in the back.
[info]ffoeg wrote:
Feb. 12th, 2008 04:55 pm (UTC)
You already know the answer to this, I'm sure. "Literary" is a genre. The word isn't particularly meaningful in itself, it's just a tag for a particular school of slice-of-life, what Eric Van would call "mimetic" fiction. Why that particular genre is elevated above all others as culturally important, I can't really say.
[info]apintrix wrote:
Feb. 12th, 2008 05:18 pm (UTC)
Yes and no...
If you are curious, try reading one of Pierre Bourdieu's sociologies of literature-- "The Field of Cultural Production", or "The Rules of Art". I find it fascinating, if a little... French. ;-)

Bourdieu's theory, in a nutshell, is that part of what has defined the discourse of "literature" or the literary since C19, as well as "high art" more generally, is a resistance to commercial or market pressures-- the genius aesthetic, basically. The more your art is separated from the market, the more "pure" and "literary" it is. There's something to that idea, I think, beyond it being "just another genre"; particularly because one of the central oppositions in the "literary field" is precisely between literary and genre fictions, which Bourdieu might say are "genre" because they cater to particular markets, and are explicitly heteronomous between the field of actual capital and cultural capital.

Postmodernism has challenged the "purity" of high art in interesting ways, of course, but I think Bourdieu is essentially correct about modernism, and we're still operating within modernism, generally. I can't do his theories justice; if you're interested, you should check it out; for an application of his ideas to genre fiction, Ken Gelder's "Popular Fiction: The Logics and Practices of a Literary Field" is good and pretty even-handed. It's particularly interesting the way that "genre" fiction appropriates the language of the market and of industry-- authors "working hard", being "productive", all this stuff-- while in literary fiction you're more liable to see language like "inspiration" or "transcendence". Fascinating. (/Spock)
[info]jenwrites wrote:
Feb. 12th, 2008 05:57 pm (UTC)
Re: Yes and no...
It's nice to have smart friends :)
[info]jenwrites wrote:
Feb. 12th, 2008 05:18 pm (UTC)
No, I'm just being pissy about it.
[info]krylyr wrote:
Feb. 12th, 2008 04:55 pm (UTC)
It is the highest form of snobbery. I prefer the term mainstream, because although that's inaccurate as well, it does kind of take down the snobbish-ness a few notches.
[info]jenwrites wrote:
Feb. 12th, 2008 05:18 pm (UTC)
Yeah, no shit. Ah well. Their loss if they're not interested in literature of the fantastic, and I don't mean simply because they're not reviewing my work.
[info]dsrtao wrote:
Feb. 12th, 2008 05:02 pm (UTC)
'literary' fiction is just emo turned down to 2, maybe 3. It should be depressing. Nothing significant should happen to any of the characters. It can be a tragedy, if no more action than a single person dying non-violently happens on-camera. At all costs the author must avoid telling a compelling story.

Like a haiku, literary fiction should use nature as a metaphor (or substitute) for character change. For this reason literary fiction is often set in autumn, as the blowing leaves can be highly symbolic. Especially daring litfic uses the aftermath of a storm, actual thunderstorms being considered too daring.

Most literary fiction is about a graduate student in an MFA program ending an affair. Advanced litfic has a professor of literature ending an affair. Sex may be depicted as long as it is boring and unsatisfying. Characters may imagine having sex which is better than what they get, but not much.

Literary fiction is granted deep respect because it is meaningless and unpopular, and therefore better than anything with meaning or popularity.
[info]jenwrites wrote:
Feb. 12th, 2008 05:21 pm (UTC)
You've pretty much hit the nail on the head.
[info]miraba wrote:
Feb. 13th, 2008 01:21 am (UTC)
Have some win.
[info]cakmpls wrote:
Feb. 12th, 2008 05:07 pm (UTC)
I agree with you entirely. Pretentious twits.
[info]jenwrites wrote:
Feb. 12th, 2008 05:21 pm (UTC)
The irony is, they're missing out on so much by segregating themselves this way. I'm not talking about my own work, I'm talking about folks like Kelly Link and Octavia Butler who write work that meets the highest literary standards, and yet is in the genre ghetto.
[info]cakmpls wrote:
Feb. 13th, 2008 12:33 am (UTC)
Pretentious twittery has nothing to do with actual art; it's all about image.
[info]fatbaldguy60 wrote:
Feb. 12th, 2008 05:17 pm (UTC)
Frankly, if a work was described as "literary", that would be all the reason I needed to turn it down.
[info]jenwrites wrote:
Feb. 12th, 2008 05:19 pm (UTC)
There are precious few "literary" novels that I'd be interested in reading. Every so often, one of my aunts will buy me one for Christmas, and I'm usually yawning by chapter two.
[info]apintrix wrote:
Feb. 12th, 2008 05:21 pm (UTC)
These folks sound like a) twats, and b) quite frankly behind the times.
[info]jenwrites wrote:
Feb. 12th, 2008 05:23 pm (UTC)
It's amazing the fiction that they're denying themselves by not opening themselves up to the fantastic. And I don't mean mine--I mean the incredible stuff being written by people far more accomplished than me in our field nowadays.
[info]avocadovpx wrote:
Feb. 12th, 2008 05:36 pm (UTC)
You might enjoy Evan Goer's post"Literary vs. Genre, Explained Using Pie."

And not all work published as "literary fiction" in "literary journals" is non-fantastic. I've tried to promote the work of Kevin Brockmeier (Iowa Workshop grad, published in the New Yorker) to my genre-reading friends, because he writes about things like a thrift-shop overcoat that can hear prayers, or a city where dead people go until every living person who remembered them has died. I've also tried to promote the work of people like Kelly Link to my lit-fic-reading friends, because I think the barriers to entry are pretty low for them. Both of them contain fantasy (or magical realist) elements, but people seem resistant for reasons other than the text itself.
[info]jenwrites wrote:
Feb. 12th, 2008 05:55 pm (UTC)
It's a weird dividing line, that's for sure. *shrugging* Ah well. I can find an audience elsewhere that's more receptive to what I do.
[info]bogwitch64 wrote:
Feb. 12th, 2008 05:37 pm (UTC)
Basic formula for lit-fic:
1. Something bad happens to protag early in life.
2. Protag spends several hundred pages whining about it.
3. Protag either overcomes, slides totally into despair or learns that living with the past is part of life.
4. End.

Ugh. Will this love-affair with lit-fic one day be studied as a phenomenon of psuedo-intellectuals elevating the mundane beyond all possible levels? Seriously.

There is some good literary fiction out there. Amsterdam, by Ian McEwan comes to mind. Anything Jonathan Safran Foer writes--though his stuff is as surreal as Dali. Who decided these things anyway??
[info]jenwrites wrote:
Feb. 12th, 2008 05:55 pm (UTC)
Who decided these things anyway??

People who aren't smart enough to appreciate science fiction.
[info]orogeny wrote:
Feb. 12th, 2008 05:41 pm (UTC)
You wouldn't believe the bandwidth I've heard spent on this issue in some circles.

"My work is character driven. Yours is plot driven."
"Literary writers who 'borrow' genre tropes are said to transcend genre -- even when they don't do it nearly as well as people who have been doing it professionally for years."

Personally, I just chalk it all up to either good fiction or bad fiction, and people who don't understand that genre fiction doesn't necessarily equate to bad fiction just need educating. And the best way to educate them is to write really fine stuff.
[info]jenwrites wrote:
Feb. 12th, 2008 05:56 pm (UTC)
I don't think I've ever managed to write a plot-driven piece in my life. Does that mean I'm not writing science fiction either? *flailing* I'm writing nothing! It's vaporfic!
[info]orogeny wrote:
Feb. 12th, 2008 06:01 pm (UTC)
That quote was from somebody who Doesn't Get It. Don't listen to that guy!

People who don't get it, don't get it.
[info]jenwrites wrote:
Feb. 12th, 2008 06:11 pm (UTC)
Oh, I know. I was being facetious.
[info]orogeny wrote:
Feb. 12th, 2008 06:03 pm (UTC)
By the way, the person who was the recipient of that particular value judgment is someone we know and love who definitely writes SF.
[info]jenwrites wrote:
Feb. 12th, 2008 06:12 pm (UTC)
And I can guess who. Yes, another person who doesn't generally write plot-driven fiction!
[info]malkingrey wrote:
Feb. 12th, 2008 08:38 pm (UTC)
You've probably heard my various rants on the art/entertainment dichotomy (which is pretty much the literary/genre dichotomy writ large) more than once by now.

From the viewpoint of a renegade medievalist, the modernist genius aesthetic is a bunch of pretentious tosh, anyway.

Maybe you should just have told your alma mater that your stories were "transgressive fictions dealing with issues of body image and gender identity in a fragmented world" and left it at that.
[info]jenwrites wrote:
Feb. 12th, 2008 09:03 pm (UTC)
Thankfully, this isn't the actual alumnae magazine, which will hopefully run a mention of it, genre cooties or no. But yes, I'll keep this in mind going forward. If nothing else, my cover doesn't scream "genre" in the least, so I might be able to sneak it past the genre police. And the first story could lull them into a sense of complacency. But the second story is "Big Sister/Little Sister," which will kill all that.
[info]capnoblivious wrote:
Feb. 12th, 2008 09:21 pm (UTC)
Heh. Was thinking along those lines myself. :)
[info]lefthand_path wrote:
Feb. 12th, 2008 10:03 pm (UTC)
i hate that. there are plenty of "literary" writers who have dabbled in or have written things that can be considered "genre."


[info]jenwrites wrote:
Feb. 13th, 2008 01:23 am (UTC)
Oh, but they have the decency to use a pseudonym when they do so.
[info]leatherzebra wrote:
Feb. 13th, 2008 03:32 am (UTC)
My husband isn't even up on the publishing world and he get agitated any time I say "literary". "It's all literary! It's book! It has to be literary because words are literary!"

The other day I was told no one cares about genre fiction. They called them "obscure books that no one but people who dress up in plastic armor and go to Tolkein (sp) conventions care about". though personally people who can completely dismiss any genre lose a little credibility with me.

[info]jenwrites wrote:
Feb. 13th, 2008 04:26 am (UTC)
*sigh*

Yet more proof that people need to look down on other people to feel good about themselves.
[info]bmlg wrote:
Feb. 13th, 2008 09:34 pm (UTC)
"obscure books"? Those would be the ones that sell, right? So the more people who are interested in the books and willing to buy them, the more obscure the books are?
Okay. There's no way I can make sense of that attitude. I've never been able to understand how influence and importance are inverse to popularity.
But I can make reference to the Neal Stephenson anecdote about "And where do you teach?"
-Barbara

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